V1.03: edited Flying VS Walking, Mobility Types and wording, based on comments submitted by
This is a feedback mainly focus on gameplay mechanics not bugs. I am playing on PS4.
- GENERAL THOUGHTS Last update Next updates
- THOUGHTS ON MOBILITY Stunlock and Dodges Aerial Dodges Flying VS Walking Grappling Hook Mobility Types
- HULK'S "REWORK" Wall Grip and Wall Jump Super Jumps Throwing items Kamala's "projectiles"
GENERAL THOUGHTS Last update
The last update was a really good step in the player's feedback direction. For me asked feedback by developers was always kind of a placebo effect to calm down critical players by giving them a feeling of power to change things. I was even more surprised by the material compensation. Thank you CD for listening the players community.
"Seriously, you're the best!" :D
The game will have a 2nd chance with next gen coming in November. I think Devs' should focus on gamebreaking bugs, mission blocking bugs, multiplayer, and rewards (loot, gear, perks...) not dropping as intened with a patch every weeks. Then add new content later, personally I wouldn't mind having only one big update per month until the game is correctly playable.
THOUGHTS ON MOBILITY
To me the combat system is great, just need some QoL improvements, but the mobility is at best weird or at worst clunky.
This game is about fighting, and moving to the next fight on a big maps (which is cool). But constantly jumping everywhere is tiring and doesn't feel right. I am an Anthem player and even with all the bugs and bad loot I loved it, because the gameplay (fight and mobility) is fun and cool. Just playing was the reward itself. Marvel's Avengers is close to this state but could benefit from some improvements.
The 1st time I played Marvel's Avengers the mobility seems really odd, doesn't felt intuitive at all, specially with Hulk (wall jumps are horrible imo), but also with grappling hooks (I really hope it will be fixed/changed for Spider-Man). Reaching platforms in trees can be really frustrating (Hulk again), and it shouldn't: mobility should be intuitive, not a challenge every jump (I am slightly exaggerating on purpose here). And after playing with a flying Hero (Thor, Ironman), because they are intuitive, not challenging (to move and reach high places), plus they have an aerial dodge, it become even more "boring" to come back to a grounded Hero.
Stunlock and Dodges
Dodging and projectile warning icones seem strange, even buggy. But the worst is being stunlocked. At least we should be able to parry when we are hit. The damage is already the punishment, taking damages in row, making you literally unable to play the game, is really bad. Let's put an experiment here: imaging you have 100 HP, you fight 10 enemies and they just do small 1 damage attacks, but if one of them hit you they will all hit you in a row. If your only option is to put down your controller and watch the scene until death, it's bad game design. Adding a simple parry option will turn your dramatic scene into a challenging "mini-game". Acting instead of waiting. Adding skillcap.
- Ability to parry (or dodge) when player is hit by basic attacks
- Unblockable lock players on the ground unable to parry/dodge, but if the player is hit again it turn back in the earlier state (able to parry/dodge)
Every Hero should be able to dodge in air, Widow and Hulk really need it because they can be really high in middle of a fight. I know we can use intrinsic to parry but it's not the same (Thor and Ironman have intrinsic parry + aerial dodge). Air dodge will make the player feel more talented instead of the current "trapped" feeling. Acting instead of waiting to fall. Let's imagine you are falling endlessly (from space station for example) and there is Drones shooting at you. If you can't dodge it's game over. If you can dodge, add a meter bar and you have a smartphone game. We could have different kinds of air dodges between flying and walking Heroes: currently flying heroes can change their direction with a dodge (it's like a dash) walking heroes could just keep their current momentum and simply become invincible (just add a roll animation when falling) or even a mix of both for heroes with agility (Spidey and Black Panther).
- Air dodges: press [dodge] in air to dodge and have invincible frames. Flying Heros already execute a dash in the direction the player chooses. Other Heroes will keep falling (+ roll/flip animation)
Flying VS Walking
To me flying VS walking is not well balanced (as a gameplay mechanic) : Walking players have to watch their steps, where they jump, where they land, jump over gaps/rocks/buildings, climb rocks/walls, look foavoid platforms/tree branches/street lamps (sometimes poorly placed), time their jumps, and the worst of all they are slower. Plus they can fail at every step and waste more time (bad direction, fail swinging, fall in gap, etc.). Flying can't make mistakes, there is no fuel, they are faster, its free, easy and zero effort. Bad balance gameplay. Running should be at least the same speed as flying (don't lower fly speed! speedboost run) : if the player chooses to do the "effort to jump every second like a rabbit" they are rewarded and go a little fastefurther, but it's not really a big deal because they will have to climb something somewhere and lose their advantage anyway. But at least they won't do extra effort to still be behind and try to keep up the lazy flyers, if they do efforts they are rewarded. I am exaggerating on purpose again.
Edit: The point is not to make grounded Heroes outrun flyers, nobody
should arrive ahead in fight to kill everybody solo. Also I think Cap' intrinsic run with shield up [R2] speed should match Thor and Iron Man intrinsic speed boost tree perk (which could be a basic perk permanently unlocked, instead of a tree option).
- Run speed = fly speed (comfort)
- Bunny hopping improve speed a little more, to keep up and balance about obstacles on the ground
- Falling in gap should not deal damages, unless an enemy throw you out of map, but not the whole life.
The current grappling hook mechanic (Kamala, Widow) is really strange, and not smooth. Right now there is kind of a Spidey vibe with Widow, but swinging from branch to branch (or street lamps) feels clunky (really hope it will improve before Spidey). For now we have some branches paths made to reach platforms, but it would be nice to swing from (almost) every trees (would make moving to a fight more diverse, fun and distracting) There could be more branches (rods on facilities ceiling, etc.) for example in one facility there is a rod under a bridge and the 1st time hulk used it I was "wow he can swing under the bridge?" and now I always take it, because it's faster and really cool!
With Hooks we also could have the choice between swinging (balancing) or grabbing (going upward) every times, not just on branches/street lamps/facility rods, but also when grabbing to platforms (if we don't want to climb it, but just swing under it, to move faster). Press "Hook" to get hooked (like currently), and before the hook animation ends, press again to get a boost (after ability upgrade), or hold the button down to swing (even on walls or edges, everywhere we can grab we could be able to swing).
- More braches / street lamps / facilities
Current grappling hook: ([X] = Grappling hook button)
- [X] = dash up (platform) or swing (rod)
- Hold [X] to swing or dash up faster
Suggested grappling hook:
- [X] = grab
- [X] [X] = dash up
- Hold [X] balance
- Release [X] to let go hook (Spidey style)
As I see it right now there is basic running heroes and the upgraded version of flying heroes. Even after making running as fast as flying, there could be more balance with more kind of mobility: super speed (faster with acceleration but no boost when jumping, ie: Captain America, Black Panther, Quicksilver) and super jumps (hold down jump button to charge, and release it to jump, ie: Hulk, Kamala, even Cap', Black Panther, Spider-Man) maybe not the same speed / length / height for all Heroes. The point is to make grounded Heroes more diverse and fun by giving them a unique mobility "style / mini game / objective".
Edit: An other kind of charged jump could allow to jump further rather than higher ( Cap' or Black Panther
- Primary mobility types (mainly used to travel):Run & jumps (normal humans), fly, super jumps, super speed, multi jumps (current Hulk)
- Sub mobility perks (situational):Grappling hook, double jumps, wall run, wall grip (Hulk), wall jump (Hulk)
- super jump (suggested) + multi jumps
- wall jump + wall grip
- super jump (suggested)
- grappling hook
- run & jumps (normal human)
- grappling hook
- super jump (suggested) + super speed (suggested)
- double jump + wall run
HULK'S "REWORK" Wall Grip and Wall Jump
First time I played Hulk in the demo and the game forced me to use the "Wall climbing mobility" (jumps, grip) I was really disconcerted. I played with these mechanics in the empty HARM room, and it feels really clunky. Currently Hulk can : stick to walls, jumps and turn around. While on walls he has 3 stances (facing the wall, looking to left, looking to right) and only three actions possible, jump (always in front), fall and turn camera. If you want to jump in your back you have to turn the camera all the way in your back. We should just have to press backward to jump backward. You can also jump upward by facing the wall but even that doesn't feel right: Hulk have to lose all his momentum (or reach the highest of the jump) to grab the wall again, it is slow and not intuitive. At least we could press jump again (which is useless in air for Hulk) to grab the wall ourselves stopping the momentum repositioning ourselves. I also expected a "jump away" option.
Edit: I forgot to mention Hulk can be stuck in wallgrip pose with the only possibility is falling back (dodge button) which feels really strange when this happens. That shouldn't happen or Hulk should be able to jump anyway.
Current Hulk wall options:
- Facing left: jump forward (whatever the direction you hold), turn the camera, fall.
- Facing the wall: jump upward (whatever the direction you hold), turn the camera, fall.
- Facing right: jump forward (whatever the direction you hold), turn the camera, fall.
Suggested Hulk wall options: (don't read this, look the picture below ...)
- Facing left: hold [forward] (or nothing) + [jump] to jump forward, hold [right] + [jump] to jump upward, hold [left] + [jump] to jump away from the wall, hold [backward] + [jump] to jump backward, turn camera, fall, press [jump] in air to grab the wall.
- Facing right: hold [forward] (or nothing) + [jump] to jump forward, hold [left] + [jump] to jump upward, hold [right] + [jump] to jump away from the wall, hold [backward] + [jump] to jump backward, turn camera, fall, press [jump] in air to grab the wall.
- Facing the wall: hold [forward] (or nothing) + [jump] to jump upward, hold [right] + [jump] to jump right, hold [left] + [jump] to jump left, hold [backward] + [jump] to jump away from the wall, turn camera, fall, press [jump] in air to grab the wall.
The way they made Hulk do "tiny" jump is like if they made Ironman and Thor hover one feet above the ground and called it "flying". Hulk could be able to hold the jump button to make a super jump (twice the current best hulk jump). The more you hold the higher you jump when release. Just because it will make it fun, changes the gameplay from others heroes, it's more lore respectful, and because jumping from trees platforms to tress platform is really boring when you have nothing (nor double jump, nor grappling hook, nor fly). Inside building / facilities this ability could be locked.
- Super jump: hold [jump] to charge and jump higher / further relatively to the charged time
Hulk could grab more decorative items from the map like car, mailbox, street lamp, tree, log, resource crate, barrel, etc. and be able to grab in air for drones. He should always success at grabbing basic enemies, otherwise it's like Thor's Mjolnir could have a chance to bounce on basic enemies. He also could grab some projectiles like missiles or rockets, maybe it's not possible with the game engine, but I still miss it from Hulk Ultimate Destruction. Another cool idea would be that the Hulk could tear off one of the Monotronic Exos' arms.
- Always successfully grab basic enemies
- Aerial grab for drones and flying enemies
- Grab cars and trees as big items (with 2 hands over his head)
- Grab drone, barrel, mailbox, street lamp, log, resource crate, elemental tanks as small item (with 1 hand)
- Grab missiles or rockets
Maybe Kamala could also be able to grab small items (barrel, mailbox, street lamp, log, resource crate, elemental tanks) and small enemies (with drones) to throw them away as projectiles (because she doesn't have any) https://preview.redd.it/04iyc0vwodq51.png?width=1144&format=png&auto=webp&s=18fa92e5e229ede1c3e09349332253447c3a6b71 https://preview.redd.it/q7yu22qxodq51.png?width=582&format=png&auto=webp&s=9ac15bba98dee93151caba7160d6e814413925f8
There is hope for future updates. I don't know if everything I said is possible or really worth working on it, but it could make the game feel better. It is all QoL so not really urgent, but as gameplay is important for me and I didn't see many feedback about mobility, I made it. I saw many Hulk super jumps requests so maybe at least that will make it to the game.
My original post was too long, I decided to move the mobility part here and keep a more concise original post version with general improvements (Heroes abilities, enemies, UI, challenges, etc.). Feedback: Heroes gameplay / abilities, menus and more (September)
I hope you enjoyed reading it as much as I enjoyed doing it! V1.01: added pictures V1.02: added pictures with transparency for night mode! V1.03: edited Flying VS Walking, Mobility Types and wording, based on comments